The Rules of Investing
The Rules of Investing is one of Australia’s longest-running business podcasts, providing investors with unparalleled access to the ideas and insights of Australia’s leading fund managers, economists and industry experts. Learn how the industry’s best invest, with the help of Livewire’s James Marlay and Chris Conway. Whether you’re new to investing or a seasoned professional, this podcast is for you. New episodes are released every second Friday, available on Livewire Markets, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.
The Rules of Investing is one of Australia’s longest-running business podcasts, providing investors with unparalleled access to the ideas and insights of Australia’s leading fund managers, economists and industry experts. Learn how the industry’s best invest, with the help of Livewire’s James Marlay and Chris Conway. Whether you’re new to investing or a seasoned professional, this podcast is for you. New episodes are released every second Friday, available on Livewire Markets, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.
Episodes

Oct 16, 2021
Uranium Special - How did we get here? (part 1)
Oct 16, 2021
Oct 16, 2021
26 min
In the first part of this special miniseries, I talk to Brandon Munro, CEO of Bannerman Energy and co-Chair of the World Nuclear Association's Nuclear Fuel Demand Working Group. Bannerman is a greenfield developer listed on the ASX under the ticker code BMN. Bannerman are currently completing a Definitive Feasability Study on their Etango-8 project, a scaled-back version of their original Etango project.
In this podcast, we discuss the background for the current bull market, how Sprott Asset Management have changed the market with their Physical Uranium Trust, and he gives us some insights into the Etango-8 project.
Disclosure: The host/author owns shares in Bannerman Resources.

Oct 8, 2021
The complete guide to LICs
Oct 8, 2021
Oct 8, 2021
57 min
'Buying a dollar for 80 cents' is an old investing cliche that's rarely taken literally these days. In a bygone era, 'net-nets' - stocks trading below the value of their net tangible assets - were a relatively common occurrence. Some investors built their whole portfolios (or careers) around them. But finding them today is easier said than done.
When dealing with listed investment companies and listed investment trusts (LICs) though, buying a dollar for 80 cents is commonplace. In fact, according to Daryl Wilson from Affluence Funds Management, buying at a discount should be central to the strategy.
Not only is it possible to pick up assets at a discount, but "the quality of managers is tremendous," says Daryl.
In this episode of The Rules of Investing podcast, we take a deep dive into the world of LICs. We cover the basics and some common jargon, how to pick a great LIC and some common pitfalls to avoid, and Daryl shares some of his favourite LICs in the market today.
Visit Livewire Markets here for a full transcript of the interview.

Sep 24, 2021
A hated sector that Ben Graham would love
Sep 24, 2021
Sep 24, 2021
1hr 10 min
Michael Goldberg and the team at Collins St Value Fund know a thing or two about making money off unloved and out of favour stocks and sectors. Their investments in uranium and a then-unloved pharmaceutical stock (among others) have helped them outperform the ASX 200 by over 8% per annum in the 5 years to 30 June.
With both of these investments having seen some outstanding returns in recent years, the obvious question is where to look next? In this episode of The Rules of Investing podcast, he addresses exactly this question. His answer is unlikely to be popular among investors, but isn’t that the point? Tune in below and you’ll also hear about the ‘superinvestors’ he’s learned the most from, and he tells us about a founder-led company with outstanding prospects for growth.

Sep 10, 2021
Sep 10, 2021
44 min
The early 90’s was an interesting time. The internet was taking off, Australia was having the ‘recession it had to have’, and Perpetual was a hotbed of Australian investing talent. A host of great investors either started or furthered their careers at the firm around this time, with many of them later launching their own boutiques. Among them was John Sevior, who along with David Cooper, founded Airlie Funds Management in 2012.
John believes the success of the firm was largely due to it being a group of like-minded people who knew the limits of their knowledge. But most of all, they always stuck to a set of simple – but not always easy – investment principles.
In this episode of The Rules of Investing podcast, John explains those simple principles that have guided his investments and how they’ve evolved over the years. He also tells us how investing first piqued his interest, and we take a deep dive into two high quality, underappreciated Australia retailers.

Aug 27, 2021
Aug 27, 2021
58 min
When Alex Waislitz started his private investment company, Thorney Investment Group, back in 1991, he was a dyed-in-the-wool value investor. Having learned the craft from the legendary entrepreneur Robert Holmes à Court, who was Australia’s first billionaire, his focus was on being a thorn (hence, ‘Thorney’) in the side of “sleepy” management teams. This approach helped him unlock hidden value and underappreciated assets and propelled him to the realms of the AFR Rich List.
But rather than becoming stuck in his ways, in recent years, Waislitz has expanded his range of skills. After developing an interest in innovative growth companies, he launched Thorney Technologies in 2016, which invests in companies across the technology lifecycle. In FY21, it was one of the best performing LICs on the ASX, with share price appreciation north of 65%.
In this special episode of The Rules of Investing, we hear about the formative years of his investment career and how he developed the strategy that's been so successful, how he's taking a 'picks and shovels' approach to investing in digital currencies, and he tells us about two Aussie small caps - an undervalued turnaround, and an innovative company with a large addressable market.

Aug 20, 2021
Aug 20, 2021
49 min
At just 23 years’ old, Harley Grosser did what many of us only ever dream of and founded his company, Capital H Management. At the time, he had just $50,000 of his own savings, and $50,000 from his grandparents. Over the next four years, he grew that money to $800,000 – forcing his grandmother off the aged pension in the process!
He achieved these returns through a combination of taking concreated positions, investing in materially undervalued small and microcaps, and looking for catalysts to help realise the value in underappreciated assets.
In this episode, we hear about the beginnings of Capital H Management, he explains how he tracks down microcap opportunities, and he tells us about a company going through significant change that the market has yet to fully appreciate.

Aug 6, 2021
How to avoid portfolio bombs
Aug 6, 2021
Aug 6, 2021
37 min
The allure of finding a big winner is difficult to resist for most equity investors. After all, we’re doing it to make money! However, there’s just as much (if not more) benefit from avoiding losers as there is from picking winners. Or as Warren Buffett has famously put it: "Rule No. 1: Never lose money. Rule No. 2: Never forget rule No. 1.”
Simple maths supports this hypothesis too – a 50% loss requires a 100% gain just to get back to breakeven.
This is especially true in the world of small caps, where Katie Hudson from Yarra Capital operates.
“When they go wrong in small companies, they go wrong in a big way. It’s not uncommon to see a 50% reduction in the share price on the back of a company having a misstep.”
In this episode of The Rules of Investing podcast, Katie share some strategies for avoiding portfolio bombs. She also tells us how she exploits inefficiencies in the markets to produce outsized returns, and shares an Aussie small cap that markets are underestimating.

Jul 23, 2021
Peter Morgan: The best asset I've ever bought
Jul 23, 2021
Jul 23, 2021
1hr 1 min
Peter Morgan is one of the most accomplished investors in Australia. While he might not be a 'household name' these days, ask anyone who's been around the industry more than 10 or 15 years and they'll likely tell you how he helped build Perpetual from an obscure company managing $70 million worth of perpetual trusts (hence the name) to a $10 billion giant of the Australian funds management industry. He worked alongside investors like Anton Tagliaferro, John Murray, John Sevior, and Matt Williams as they all made names for themselves in the industry.
After leaving Perpetual in the early 2000s, he founded 452 Capital, which went on to become one of Australia's most successful boutiques. Then in 2009, he abruptly left the industry after being diagnosed with a rare and deadly form of brain cancer - a diagnosis that was later shown to be incorrect, but not before a round of chemo.
This experience left him with an entirely new perspective on life, one that valued experiences and memories over gathering an ever-larger pool of assets. Throughout all this, he says the best thing he's ever bought is his dog, Blaze - $300 well spent indeed!
In this episode of The Rules of Investing podcast, we delve into his incredible story, hear how he manages assets differently now as a private investor, and hear some of his views on markets and stocks today.



