The Rules of Investing
The Rules of Investing is one of Australia’s longest-running business podcasts, providing investors with unparalleled access to the ideas and insights of Australia’s leading fund managers, economists and industry experts. Learn how the industry’s best invest, with the help of Livewire’s James Marlay and Chris Conway. Whether you’re new to investing or a seasoned professional, this podcast is for you. New episodes are released every second Friday, available on Livewire Markets, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.
Episodes

Friday Aug 02, 2024
How to dominate small caps like Roger Federer dominates tennis
Friday Aug 02, 2024
Friday Aug 02, 2024
In tennis, just as in investing, it's the points that you win that matter. After all, Roger Federer played 1,526 singles matches throughout his career, and while he only won 54% of the individual points within those matches, he walked away with the win 80% of the time.
Ausbil Investment Management's fresh-faced co-head of emerging companies, and portfolio manager for its small and micro-cap strategies, Arden Jennings, is focusing on just that.
"Stocks are just points. But it's the points that matter that win you the game. So for us, our largest detractor was still smaller than our 17th biggest winner. Even though we had an even spread of winners and losers, it was the ones that were successful that made it a good year," he says.
And a good year it was. The Ausbil MicroCap Fund returned 33.53% in FY24, while its Australian Small Cap Fund delivered investors a nice 25.73%. Since inception, these funds have returned 20.08% (since February 2010) and 24.17% (since April 2020), respectively.
So, where is the Roger Federer of Australian small caps seeing the most opportunity today? You'll find out in this episode of The Rules of Investing.
Note: This episode was recorded on 30 July 2024. You can watch the video or listen to the podcast below.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/where-the-roger-federer-of-australian-small-caps-sees-the-most-opportunity-today
Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
2:36 - Decisions that lead to outperformance in FY24
5:04 - Roger Federer's streak and lessons for investing
6:13 - Interest rate expectations
7:00 - Why the small-cap rebound can continue and the Great Rotation in Australia
8:03 - The stocks that will benefit - HUB24 (ASX: HUB), Zip Co (ASX: Z1P), Credit Corp (ASX: CCP)
9:24 - Wildcards that could impact investors' portfolios
11:41 - What to expect this reporting season
12:29 - Why investors should be wary of crowded trades
13:24 - A stock to watch this reporting season: Aussie Broadband (ASX: ABB)
14:15 - One thing the market is getting wrong right now
16:24 - A story of a big win or loss from Arden's investing journey
17:27 - Stories from childhood - investing at 10 years old
18:01 - One stock to hold if the market were to close for the next 5 years... you'll have to listen to the interview for that one!

Friday Jul 19, 2024
30-year property veteran: Australia has its head in the sand on housing
Friday Jul 19, 2024
Friday Jul 19, 2024
There's no supply in residential housing nor the majority of segments of the commercial real estate market. Sky-high construction costs are now too prohibitive. Bandaid solutions, like rent control, only backfire. And inconsistent state, federal and local policies are not helping either.
That's according to this week's guest on The Rules of Investing, Andrew Parsons, a founder and the chief investment officer of global listed real estate manager Resolution Capital.
While these factors continue to perpetuate Australia's housing problem, they are actually positive for long-term investors in real estate.
In this episode of The Rules of Investing, Parsons dives into Australia's property problem, outlines what he believes to be the solution, and shares why listed property is in for a strong three to five years ahead of us.
Note: This episode of the Rules of Investing was recorded on Wednesday 17 July 2024.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/30-year-property-veteran-australia-has-its-head-in-the-sand-on-housing
Timecodes
0:00 – Introduction
2:06 – A fascinating, under-appreciated part of the market
3:45 – What is a REIT?
5:30 – The key distinctions between REITs and physical property assets
8:45 – Which do you prefer: an investment property or listed property assets?
9:50 – Where REITs sit alongside equities and fixed income
10:55 – What you’re really paying for when you buy real estate
12:50 – Why property development is so difficult currently
13:40 – Australia’s troubling property supply shortfall
15:04 – “We don’t want urban sprawl”
16:30 – How do you solve Australia’s big property problem?
20:50 – The effect of interest rates on listed property, versus equities and bonds
23:40 – How Resolution Capital is currently positioned
33:50 – What is your best investment of all time?
38:08 – Resolution Capital’s five-year pick

Saturday Jul 06, 2024
3 compelling long-term ETF ideas for investors still on the sidelines
Saturday Jul 06, 2024
Saturday Jul 06, 2024
Investors are too focused on interest rates and are subsequently underweight risk assets.
That’s the, albeit US-centric, view from Global X ETFs’ Head of Investment Strategy, Scott Helfstein.
He elaborates by saying that the US economy is looking a lot more like mid-cycle expansion than late cycle and that “you don’t want to be sitting on the sidelines”.
A fan of thematic investing, Helfstein goes on to highlight three big investment themes that he likes right now, including one offering the opportunity for true transformation, that’s available for the same price as the S&P 500.
Don’t miss the latest Rules of Investing Podcast.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/3-compelling-long-term-etf-ideas-for-investors-still-on-the-sidelines
Timecodes
0:00 - Intro1:12 - A unique background for an investment professional7:17 - The current state of geopolitics12:00 - Australia's position in the global landscape14:10 - The appeal of thematic investing16:42 - Where is the puck going?22:53 - Sectors versus themes26:48 - The role of thematic investing in a portfolio28:46 - Nothing but ETFs?30:27 - Ranking the big themes34:22 - A theme that is flying under the radar36:40 - Risks in thematic investing38:32 - Mama's favourite son39:49 - What are investors getting wrong?41:07 - One theme for the next five years

Friday Jun 28, 2024
Friday Jun 28, 2024
Fully franked dividends are a prized asset of the Australian market. While the lack of growth is often lamented, plenty of self-funded retirees are content to dine on the distributions of Australia's big miners and banks.
And who can blame them - high commodity prices, particularly in iron ore and lithium, resulted in record dividends from the top end of town. However, after peaking in 2021 and 2022, dividends from mining companies are steadily declining.
Research from Commsec published late in 2023 showed that the 12-month forward dividend yield for the ASX200 has been below the long-run average of 4.7%, and dividend per share estimates have been cut by 14 per cent.
The good news is that Australian banks have been increasing their dividends whilst also enjoying surging share prices. There is also a long list of consistent dividend paying stocks that often fly under the radar.
In this episode of the Rules of Investing, Livewire's James Marlay speaks with Plato Investment Management's Dr Don Hamson to get his diagnosis on the case of the 'disappearing dividends'. Hamson insists that diversification remains a free lunch for investors, especially for those seeking stable and consistent returns. He also emphasizes that fully franked dividends continue to stack up as the backbone of an income-generating portfolio.
Timecodes:
0:00 - Introduction
1:43 - The outlook for dividends
8:27 - Dividends versus Fixed Income
10:25 - Dwindling dividends
13:08 - The dividend outlook for mining shares
17:00 - Tactics to combat declining dividends
20:07 - Australian banks - stable but expensive
22:10 - The case for diversification
25:15 - Winning by avoiding the losers
28:09 - What returns are realistic for Plato?
31:26 - A lesson from Medibank Private
34:10 - Don’t focus on the US election
36:23 - The stock most likely to be a 5-year resident in the Plato Australian Shares Income Fund

Friday Jun 14, 2024
Recession a line ball as Australia groans under a massive debt load
Friday Jun 14, 2024
Friday Jun 14, 2024
This time last year, PIMCO Portfolio Manager Adam Bowe told Livewire that there was a 50/50 chance that Australia would slip into recession. March GDP figures show that the economy grew at just 0.1 per cent, the slowest rate since December 2020. Today, Bowe says interest rates are sufficiently restrictive, and the chance of recession remains a ‘line ball’.
In this episode of The Rules of Investing, Bowe explains why interest rates in Australia don't need to go higher, why house prices have been immune to interest rate increases and where he is finding the best income opportunities right now.

Friday May 31, 2024
Rudi: AI is the end of investing as we know it
Friday May 31, 2024
Friday May 31, 2024
While "survival of the fittest" certainly applies to the Earth's abundance of flora and fauna, it may be time for investors to take a page out of Darwin's book.
That's according to FNArena's Rudi Filapek-Vandyck, who believes the market has irreversibly changed since 2014 - as has the way investors should value stocks.
In this episode, Rudi outlines why he believes technological innovation will transform the market as we know it. He also discusses some of his favourite ASX-listed stocks to play the AI theme, the importance of quality companies in today's markets, and what it takes for a company to be an all-weather stock.
Note: This episode was recorded on Wednesday 29 May 2024. Note #2: Ally was today years old when she learnt what R.E.M. is, she apologises for any harm her ignorance may have caused hardcore fans. If it's any excuse, the song was released seven years before she was born.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/rudi-ai-is-the-end-of-investing-as-we-know-it

Thursday May 23, 2024
The investment secrets of Australia's billionaires
Thursday May 23, 2024
Thursday May 23, 2024
There seems to be no stopping Australia's ultra-wealthy, with the number of billionaires down under growing by 14.4% over the past 12 months, to a record 159 people. For some context, in 2020, this number was 117, according to The Australian.
While it's wonderful to daydream about what you would buy or do with a few billion dollars, the true secret success of the ultra-wealthy is their ability to stay that way. After all, how many stories have you read of lottery winners squandering their newfound wealth just a few short years later?
So, how do the other half continue to grow their wealth?
To find out, Livewire sat down with MRB House's Peter Magee and Walsh Capital's Louise Walsh for their insights into how Australia's ultra-wealthy invest as part of Livewire's Undiscovered Funds Series.
They share their tips and tricks for identifying "exceptional" funds, outline the factors that are important to their processes, share what to do when a fund isn't performing as expected, and name one recently launched fund that has impressed in recent years.
Note: This interview was recorded on Wednesday 15 May 2024.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/the-investment-secrets-of-australia-s-billionaires

Saturday May 18, 2024
700+ meetings each year: How WAM Global uncovers under-the-radar stocks
Saturday May 18, 2024
Saturday May 18, 2024
In investing, just as in love, trust is everything - and without it, you really don't have anything at all.
It's for this reason that the Wilson Asset Management global equities team meets with more than 700 management teams across the world each year - including in the US, Japan, and Europe. In addition, they also meet with competitors and suppliers, as well as talk to current and past employees and industry experts.
According to WAM Global (ASX: WGB) lead portfolio manager Catriona Burns, the team does this because trust in a company's management team is paramount.
"Have they hit their targets? Have they done what they said? If we have any doubts on that trust factor, for us, that's completely a non-negotiable and we won't invest," she says.
Burns is reading between the lines, and looking beneath the surface for red flags. And while management teams selling stock, poor track records and value-destructive deals can certainly be warning signs, she argues that alignment - and the lack thereof - can often be far more telling for the future direction of a company's share price.
"Incentives drive outcomes... I can't tell you how many times I have seen incentives for management based on earnings per share growth," she says.
"Companies just chase acquisitions to meet earnings growth without thinking about the returns that are being generated on the dollars spent. That happens time and time again and is a massive red flag."
In this episode of The Rules of Investing, Burns takes listeners through some of the companies that have managed to pass her filters, as well as why catalysts are so important for investors with a penchant for value.
She also outlines why the listed investment company's growing annual yields won't be slowing over the next five years, what it's actually like on the ground in the US right now, as well as what the US election at the end of the year could mean for markets.
Note: This interview was recorded on Tuesday 14 May 2024.
https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/700-meetings-each-year-how-wam-global-uncovers-under-the-radar-stocks
0:00 - Intro
1:21 - What it is actually like on the ground in the US
2:14 - Catriona Burns' outlook on rates and inflation
3:26 - The WAM Global (ASX: WGB) investment process (and the importance of trust)
8:09 - Alignment is everything + why CTS Eventim (ETR: EVD) is a good example
9:35 - Artificial intelligence and where Catriona is invested here
13:38 - On not owning NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA)
14:41 - Why she's overweight financials and healthcare
16:47 - Picks + shovels approach versus drug developers in healthcare
18:18 - Stock with major catalysts on the horizon: CTS Eventim (ETR: EVD) and Quanta Services (NYSE: PWR)
20:01 - Why catalysts are so important
21:27 - The sustainability of WAM Global's yields + franking credits
22:46 - How to think about performance
24:33 - Why Catriona is bullish on the outlook for global small and mid caps
25:42 - One thing investors are getting wrong about today's markets
26:51 - US politics + what a Trump win would mean for markets
29:10 - A story of a loss from Catriona's career and what she has learnt from this
31:19 - One stock that Catriona would buy and hold if the market were to close for the next five years: Intercontinental Exchange (NYSE: ICE)