The Rules of Investing
The Rules of Investing is one of Australia’s longest-running business podcasts, providing investors with unparalleled access to the ideas and insights of Australia’s leading fund managers, economists and industry experts. Learn how the industry’s best invest, with the help of Livewire’s Ally Selby, James Marlay and Chris Conway. Whether you’re new to investing or a seasoned professional, this podcast is for you. New episodes are released every second Friday, available on Livewire Markets, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.
Episodes

Friday Nov 08, 2024
Brigette Leckie: Investing is like a patchwork quilt
Friday Nov 08, 2024
Friday Nov 08, 2024
Koda Capital is one of Australia's elite wealth management firms, charged with allocating over $11.5 billion of capital on behalf of high-net-worth individuals, family offices, and charitable foundations.
For the past decade, Brigette Leckie has played a pivotal role in shaping the firm's views on where the best opportunities lie across global asset markets. Leckie firmly believes that understanding the macro environment is the starting point for building an investment strategy.
And while it's not every day that investors like you and me get to pick the brains of an asset allocator with Brigette's experience. In this episode of the Rules of Investing, you'll get a front-row seat and learn how Brigette makes sense of the dynamics in global economies and what that means for investors.
With a new regime set to take office in the world's largest economy and Australia's largest trading partner, China, amid a generational economic transition, the macro environment requires careful consideration for investors.
Around the world with Brigette Leckie
Fresh off the back of visits to Europe and the United States, Brigette made these observations.
Europe: Better than the headlines and muddling through 'muddle through'
Traffic is everywhere (yes, worse than Sydney)
A change in attitudes towards experiences over spending on goods persists.
Restaurants and streets are buzzing, and with the exception of Germany, economies will continue to muddle along
Manufacturing in Germany remains sluggish
United States: The gap is widening
Inflation is real. Flights are at capacity, it's hard to get an Uber, and the streets are buzzing in many cities.
The gap between the haves and the have-nots is widening.
Politics remains highly divisive for families and corporations.
"I did see divisiveness in a couple of things I did see on the corporate side. So, for example, getting into a car and asking the driver what his views on the election were, and he said, "Company policy is we don't talk about the election or politics." So that surprised me," said Leckie.
China: Three significant issues to deal with
Leckie says that China has been letting market forces deal with three major issues in its economy, and she expects these will take some time to resolve.
Deflation: This remains an issue caused by excess capacity in the economy.
Weak consumer: Consumer sentiment is fragile, creating a downward deflation spiral.
Excesses of the property market: This is a well-documented issue that will take time to work through.
Historically, China's policy has been boom or bust. Leckie believes that a mindset shift has taken place, and the old approach is being replaced by genuine reform. The goal is to gradually turn China into a more consumer-based economy. A stronger China is good for global economies, especially Australia; however, we should not expect the boom days of the past to return.
So does macro matter?
Leckie emphatically believes that understanding macroeconomics is the foundation of good investment strategy and asset allocation. She cites the example of interest rates near zero or negative as a point in time when the macroeconomics was 'out of whack' and providing a clear signal. Developed market bonds were 'uninvestable' in her eyes—a call that has been vindicated in recent years.
Currency markets can also provide a signal. Most of the time, currencies trade in a narrow range, but there are times when they get to extremes. For example, the Australian dollar was worth less than US50 cents, and equally, it traded at parity. For globally diversified portfolios, these extreme moments matter.
Three points for asset allocation right now
Leckie says returns in recent years have been exceptional, and investors should be mindful not to extrapolate these into the future. Knowing what risk you will tolerate is easy to underestimate when markets are ripping higher. Leckie had these key messages for investors.
Hold your conviction on big calls. If you have a strong foundation for your positions, you need to be willing to ride out short-term noise.
Investors are too bullish on risk assets and should be cautious about expecting these returns to continue
Diversification will be crucial over the period ahead. Investors must ensure their portfolios are properly diversified with uncorrelated investments.

Friday Oct 25, 2024
Friday Oct 25, 2024
For those who love equities, you’re in for a treat with the latest Rules of Investing podcast. This week's episode features First Sentier Investors’ Deputy Head of Australian Equities Growth, David Wilson.
Wilson's bread and butter is picking high-quality growth companies - a role he executes every day as part of the team that runs the First Sentier Geared Australian Share Fund. He is not afraid to explain how he goes about doing this while acknowledging his missteps and sharing a handful of stocks he likes right now.
When it comes to his process for picking stocks, Wilson says it’s all “pretty logical”.
“We just try to invest in good businesses with management that are trying to do the right thing for you and with the right sort of balance sheet.It's pretty straightforward. You can overcomplicate these things, but generally, that's our approach”, says Wilson.Wilson adds that the team watches company management very closely:
“What they're trying to achieve, what their goals are, but also at their actions, particularly when they make an acquisition or divestment - that's a point where you get a real insight into how a company is thinking," says Wilson.
Wilson points to Car Group (ASX: CAR) as a company with a solid acquisition history. The company is a recent addition to the portfolio, though Wilson acknowledges that he was a bit late to the party.
Another stock he particularly likes right now is pallet-maker and logistics company Brambles (ASX: BXB), saying that “the new management team has brought in a real pricing discipline over the last five years”, which has allowed them to cement a dominant position as a global leader.
In the following episode, Wilson also discusses the Fund's current overweights in tech and healthcare and names one stock from each sector that stands out (one of which is also the stock he would own if the market closed for five years).
In terms of what Wilson doesn’t like right now, he talks about the shrinking position of consumer staples and explains why they haven’t been “quite so staple” over the past year.
He also talks to sector underweights in energy, financials and materials – despite being overweight BHP Group (ASX: BHP) and Rio Tinto (ASX: RIO). For good measure, he also shares his thoughts on Rio’s takeover of Arcadium Lithium.
Finally, in explaining how valuations matter, Wilson shares why he is underweight Cochlear (ASX: COH), despite it being a great business.
Listen to the podcast to learn what keeps Wilson motivated after 40 years in markets, how he sees the current market conditions, and learn a little more about his process for picking stocks. For good measure, he'll even share with you which financial metric is a waste of time!
Note: This interview was recorded on Tuesday22 October 2024.

Friday Oct 11, 2024
Friday Oct 11, 2024
In a world where artificial intelligence dominates headlines, few fund managers have harnessed it as boldly as Armina Rosenberg.
For those who don't know her, "Arms" made a name for herself at Grok Ventures, the family office of Mike Cannon-Brookes.
Now, she's paving a new path at AI-backed Minotaur Capital, alongside Perpetual alumnus Thomas Rice.
The duo have developed Taurient, a software system that uses large language models for everything from idea generation to portfolio construction.
In this episode of The Rules of Investing, Arms outlines how you can use AI to level up your own investment strategy, as well as a few stock ideas to get you started.
Note: This interview was recorded on Wednesday 9 October 2024.
Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
2:13 - Lessons learnt from managing the wealth of Australia's mega-rich
7:32 - Family involvement in investment in family offices
8:56 - Differences between how retail investors and mega-wealthy invest
10:01 - What makes Minotaur Capital different from its peers
13:23 - How Arms and Thomas met
15:26 - How Minotaur's AI system Taurient works
25:21 - Mix of fundamental investing and AI
26:30 - Can AI help to know when to sell a stock?
27:37 - Can investors develop an AI-backed system themselves?
29:04 - How investors can use ChatGPT to make smarter investing decisions
31:21 - The future of funds management in an AI world
34:32 - Where the team sees opportunity today i.e. exciting themes
37:13 - Energy companies making waves on the global stage
39:10 - AI winners - why Minotaur is backing smaller players over the behemoths
39:55 - Healthcare ideas - and an emerging oral GLP-1 winner in Japan
41:25 - Why Japan is a "once in a generation opportunity"
42:53 - An example of a company Minotaur is shorting
45:18 - What the market is getting wrong today - private credit
47:36 - Stories of wins and losses and lessons from these
51:51 - Two stocks for the next five years (if the market were to close in that time
Thanks to our Sponsor AlphaSenseThis latest episode is brought to you by AlphaSense.See what AlphaSense can do for your investment research—visit alpha-sense.com/livewire to get started.

Thursday Oct 10, 2024
Thursday Oct 10, 2024
Today, we’ll be bringing all the insights from Livewire Live together with the help of one of Australia's leading financial advisers and one of the country's top wealth managers.
Livewire’s James Marlay sat down with Alexandre Ventelon of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and Charlie Viola of Pitcher Partners to answer our audience’s questions about asset allocation and give investors some tangible ideas on how to apply the lessons and insights from a full day of sessions covering multiple asset classes, themes and ideas.
This episode is part of our special mini-series of The Rules of Investing, giving you a front-row seat to discussions from Livewire Live 2024, our flagship investor event.
Whether you’re after big-picture market insights or actionable investment strategies, this series offers exclusive insights to help shape your investment decisions.
We hope you enjoy this special 7-part series. We’ll return to our regular programming with the next episode of The Rules of Investing.
________________
This series is proudly sponsored by Bell Direct Advantage.
Bell Direct Advantage is a premium trading platform designed for active and sophisticated investors. Offering access to Bell Potter research, exclusive IPOs, and advanced trading tools, it’s built to give you a competitive edge. Whether you’re a frequent trader or a high-net-worth individual trading shares, options, or warrants, Bell Direct Advantage delivers tailored solutions and superior service to sharpen your investing edge. [Find out more here]

Wednesday Oct 09, 2024
The good, the bad, and the ugly - Livewire Live Mini-Series
Wednesday Oct 09, 2024
Wednesday Oct 09, 2024
Today, you’ll be learning about the good, the bad and the ugly of equities markets - with the help of:
Dr David Allen, Head of Long/Short Strategies, Plato Investment Management
Ben Griffiths, Executive Chairman, Eley Griffiths Group
James Hawkins, Partner & Head of the Catalyst Fund, L1 Capital
Dushko Bajic, Head of Australian Equities Growth, First Sentier Investors
This panel is hosted by Centennial Asset Management’s Matthew Kidman.
They explore the stocks they are bullish on today, the themes they believe are likely to suffer, and the stocks they recommend investors avoid (or short, if they can) over the months ahead.
This episode is part of our special mini-series of The Rules of Investing, giving you a front-row seat to discussions from Livewire Live 2024, our flagship investor event.
Whether you’re after big-picture market insights or actionable investment strategies, this series offers exclusive insights to help shape your investment decisions.
We hope you enjoy this special 7-part series. We’ll return to our regular programming with the next episode of The Rules of Investing.
________________
This series is proudly sponsored by Bell Direct Advantage.
Bell Direct Advantage is a premium trading platform designed for active and sophisticated investors. Offering access to Bell Potter research, exclusive IPOs, and advanced trading tools, it’s built to give you a competitive edge. Whether you’re a frequent trader or a high-net-worth individual trading shares, options, or warrants, Bell Direct Advantage delivers tailored solutions and superior service to sharpen your investing edge. [Find out more here]

Tuesday Oct 08, 2024
5 Shocking Predictions for 2025 - Livewire Live Mini-Series
Tuesday Oct 08, 2024
Tuesday Oct 08, 2024
Many of the best investing opportunities emerge when you think differently from the herd. This session will feature five high energy predictions that will challenge consensus thinking as investors look towards 2025 and beyond.
You’ll be hearing from five of Australia’s leading investment minds, including:
Kellie Wood, Head of Fixed Income at Schroders
Vihari Ross, Portfolio Manager at Antipodes,
Bob Desmond, Co-Portfolio Manager and Head of Claremont Global
Josh Clark, Lead Portfolio Manager at QVG Capital
Matthew Kidman, Chief Investment Officer at Centennial Asset Management.
This episode is part of our special mini-series of The Rules of Investing, giving you a front-row seat to discussions from Livewire Live 2024, our flagship investor event.
Whether you’re after big-picture market insights or actionable investment strategies, this series offers exclusive insights to help shape your investment decisions.
We hope you enjoy this special 7-part series. We’ll return to our regular programming with the next episode of The Rules of Investing.
________________
This series is proudly sponsored by Bell Direct Advantage.
Bell Direct Advantage is a premium trading platform designed for active and sophisticated investors. Offering access to Bell Potter research, exclusive IPOs, and advanced trading tools, it’s built to give you a competitive edge. Whether you’re a frequent trader or a high-net-worth individual trading shares, options, or warrants, Bell Direct Advantage delivers tailored solutions and superior service to sharpen your investing edge. [Find out more here]

Monday Oct 07, 2024
Monday Oct 07, 2024
In this session you’ll be hearing a fireside chat with Todd Barlow the CEO of Soul Patts, Australia’s oldest listed company.
Soul Patts is a diversified investment house often described as Australia’s answer to Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway. The company has established an incredible record of dividend payments to shareholders and today you’ll be getting an asset allocation masterclass from Todd and hearing about the opportunities he sees in the market today.
This session was moderated by James Unger, Head of Corporate Finance and Bell Potter Securities.
This episode is part of our special mini-series of The Rules of Investing, giving you a front-row seat to discussions from Livewire Live 2024, our flagship investor event.
Whether you’re after big-picture market insights or actionable investment strategies, this series offers exclusive insights to help shape your investment decisions.
We hope you enjoy this special 7-part series. We’ll return to our regular programming with the next episode of The Rules of Investing.
________________
This series is proudly sponsored by Bell Direct Advantage.
Bell Direct Advantage is a premium trading platform designed for active and sophisticated investors. Offering access to Bell Potter research, exclusive IPOs, and advanced trading tools, it’s built to give you a competitive edge. Whether you’re a frequent trader or a high-net-worth individual trading shares, options, or warrants, Bell Direct Advantage delivers tailored solutions and superior service to sharpen your investing edge. [Find out more here]

Sunday Oct 06, 2024
Sunday Oct 06, 2024
Artificial Intelligence is surely the hottest topic right now powering returns in stock markets and capturing our attention with its promise of productivity and innovation. But with such spectacular interest and returns I’m sure many investors are wondering if the opportunity has passed.
Our next panel will be picking the eyes out of the AI opportunity. How big is it and where are we in the cycle for this industry? Who will be the winners? And who will get crushed?
The panel features:
Nick Griffin, Founding Partner & Chief Investment Officer, Munro Partners
Jun Bei Liu, Lead Portfolio Manager, Tribeca Investment Partners
Jacob Mitchell, Chief Investment Officer & Lead Portfolio Manager, Antipodes
This session was moderated by Livewire’s Deputy Managing Editor Ally Selby.
This episode is part of our special mini-series of The Rules of Investing, giving you a front-row seat to discussions from Livewire Live 2024, our flagship investor event.
Whether you’re after big-picture market insights or actionable investment strategies, this series offers exclusive insights to help shape your investment decisions.
We hope you enjoy this special 7-part series. We’ll return to our regular programming with the next episode of The Rules of Investing.
________________
This series is proudly sponsored by Bell Direct Advantage.
Bell Direct Advantage is a premium trading platform designed for active and sophisticated investors. Offering access to Bell Potter research, exclusive IPOs, and advanced trading tools, it’s built to give you a competitive edge. Whether you’re a frequent trader or a high-net-worth individual trading shares, options, or warrants, Bell Direct Advantage delivers tailored solutions and superior service to sharpen your investing edge. [Find out more here]